I got my Turkish residence permit!!

Anything you wanna say, say it!

Postby Ishihara » Sat May 26, 2007 4:49 pm

Cracked Pleasures wrote:I am from the Flemish side, but speak both languages. I consider myself Belgian rather than Flemish, which sort of indicates my political preferences as well as I don't support the parties that wish to split Belgium.

I seem to always go to politically messed up countries somehow. First Belgium, then Northern Ireland, now Turkey... well, Turkey is not messed up yet politically, but the elections are upcoming :ph34r:


My friend is Walloon, yes I think it's sill to split the country when the rest of Europe is making efforts to unite.

The same issues come up in my country too, Every so often there is a political movement to split Italy into a North and South.
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Postby Cracked Pleasures » Sat May 26, 2007 5:39 pm

The Flemish side is quite racist sometimes, a lot of people don't like foreigners unless they're just staying short-term for tourism. Also they blame the Walloon side for wasting money partly collected from Flemish tax payers...
I don't like the politics in Belgium but I hope the next elections will show improvement.

I join your views: if Europe wants to unite, further splits are unnecessary. And in belgium it'd pose a massive problem because Brussels is surrounded by Flemish soil but Brussels itself is full of Walloons and French-speakers. It'd not make sense to split the country IMHO.

Is there a lot of support for a split in Italy, or is the north-south devide a request only supported by a small minority?

In terms of my next home country, I'm curious if Turkey will further approach full EU membership or not. I don't really need it myself anymore now that I've got my working permit, but still I'm interested to see what is going to happen. I guess Cyprus may pose some problems...
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Postby Ishihara » Sat May 26, 2007 6:09 pm

Cracked Pleasures wrote:Is there a lot of support for a split in Italy, or is the north-south devide a request only supported by a small minority?

In terms of my next home country, I'm curious if Turkey will further approach full EU membership or not. I don't really need it myself anymore now that I've got my working permit, but still I'm interested to see what is going to happen. I guess Cyprus may pose some problems...


It's something that comes up every so often. My family is from Umbria, the green heart of Italy. So if there ever was a split we would wind up on the northern side. The support comes in waves. I wish people would spend their efforts on more important things. Italy has the 2nd largest illegal immigration problem on Earth. It's hurting tourism and polluting my country with savage crime. Keep in might I am saying this coming from Los Angeles the heart of the largest illegal immigration problem on Earth.

I honestly don't think Turkey will make EU membership in my life-time. I don't support it either, for one they don't need it. They already have free trade with the EU and receive all the same economic benefits as if they were a full member. Yes Cyprus is a problem, they should have never been admitted to the EU in the first place, they are an Asian nation. Because of Cyrpus other Asian nations like Armenia think they have a chance to join the EU. Another obstacle for Turkey is that in order to join the EU they will have to reclassify the war with Armenia as a genocide, I don't see Turkey ever caving in on this issue. All it will take is one general referendum from France and the whole issue will be moot.

Why I personally don't support Turkey's admission is for 2 reasons.
1.) The vast majority of Europeans do not want Turkey to join, and the EU council is proceeding against the will of the people. Very undemocratic!
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2.) As I mentioned earlier my family is from Umbria we were some of the first people fight in the crusades. so I, like most Europeans have family that gave their lives to keep these people out of Europe and now the Council wants to send them an official invitation? Why not just urinate on my family graves. To ignore and disrespect their great sacrifices is obscene to me.

I don't wish Turks any ill will, but I don't want them to be considered as my brothers either.
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Postby Cracked Pleasures » Sat May 26, 2007 7:11 pm

Fair enough. I personally have nothing against their membership, nor do I really favor it explicitly. There's a few pro's and con's that both make sense so I am a bit in doubt. I would have no problem with them joining, but also understand the obstacles that are there.

Personally I would not benefit from it anymore now that I got a residence and working permit for Turkey. If it were an EU nation emigration to Turkey would be easier, however it does not make a difference anymore for me now that I got accepted and got my permit. So personally there would not be any specific benefit or harm in them joining, to my personal situation it would make not a difference.

From general point of view, I would not mind Turkish EU affiliation but also understand the obstacles, so I'm somewhere in betwee pro and contra.

Weither Armenia and Azerbaijan are classified as Europe is an interesting debate, as the exact border of Europe is difficult to draw without any natural border. The Strait of Gibraltar and the Bosphorus are clear natural borders, but further east it's less obvious: where exactly in Russia and Kazakhstan does Asia commence, and where exactly in the Caucasus do we draw the border between Asia and Europe? It is weird to see Armenia as European while just south of it, the eastern part of Turkey is classified as Asia. Heck, some even claim Israel is a European country, which may be true culturally but geographically it isn't. The debate on where to draw the line, is an interesting one. Cyprus IMHO is only European in terms of culture, but in the end I'd say it's an Asian country.
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Postby chicken » Sat May 26, 2007 7:35 pm

wow. interesting.

from the four Kazakh students i've known this past year, they'd probably say: "all of our country is in asia, that's a silly question." i suspect the vast majority of people who live in Kazakhstan consider it solely an asian nation.

this discussion makes me think about my own basic political beliefs. my intuition tells me that the EU is, in a weird way, emulating the US---a huge continental mass attempting to establish a universal government. while the US has some advantages, i'm not so certain this mind-set applies so well to europe. given the depth of history and politics in europe as a whole, uniting it seems rather daft in some ways. sure, opening up economic lines and some social lines make sense, but identity is identity. that's a hard fence to straddle with no simple answers.


north vs. south: one would not have to look very far in areas of the US to find this division alive and well. :ph34r:

and to follow up to CP: as for "Turkish trinkets" i'm meaning any little bauble or fancy that i could get no where else on earth. nothing cheap and trendy, nothing plastic or plaster. how about this? : some sort of little treasure Jung would have in his office.


a family history with the crusades, Shintaro? that's pretty cool. i can trace relatives back to Sir William of Orange. i'd have to look into dates to see how they stack up, but this isn't a competition. it's just cool to see someone else interested in their lineage :D
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Postby Ishihara » Sat May 26, 2007 8:16 pm

chicken wrote:wow. interesting.

this discussion makes me think about my own basic political beliefs. my intuition tells me that the EU is, in a weird way, emulating the US---a huge continental mass attempting to establish a universal government.


The EU really began with the treaty of Rome in 1957, there were some earlier events and agreements that led up to the treaty of Rome but in '57 is when it all really began.

The goals back then were clear and just in IMO, never have a war in Europe again. The idea was to create strong economic ties between the nations of Europe that war would become completely impractical. Fast Forward to today, there is a movement to create more cultural unity in Europe, which I think is fine, but a very slow process and introducing Asian/Middle Eastern nations into the mix, hinders more than helps the process. I don't think anyone in Europe wants to completely give up sovereignty to the EU, so it will never be like the US.

I strongly support free-trade between the US, Japan, and the EU. The world's 3 largest economies would have massive net gains for all involved and would lead to much greater stability and peaceful cooperation in global public policy.
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Postby chicken » Sat May 26, 2007 8:23 pm

Shintaro Ishihara wrote:I strongly support free-trade between the US, Japan, and the EU. The world's 3 largest economies would have massive net gains for all involved and would lead to much greater stability and peaceful cooperation in global public policy.


i support that as well.
yet, in no way do i intend on leaving out any of the emerging asian powers (specifically, India and China). i really think if the US, Japan, and the EU do not keep up, those two powers will surpass us in my lifetime.

all said and done, i grow weary of "us v them" thinking. one earth, one people, one future for our children. this doesn't mean people should abandon their heritage, quite the opposite. it means people should respect the heritage of another, grow from it. aren't us hairless apes bright enough to learn from the mistakes of others?
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Postby Ishihara » Sat May 26, 2007 11:04 pm

chicken wrote:<!--quoteo(post=41377:date=May 26 2007, 08:16 PM:name=Shintaro Ishihara)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shintaro Ishihara @ May 26 2007, 08:16 PM) [snapback]41377[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I strongly support free-trade between the US, Japan, and the EU. The world's 3 largest economies would have massive net gains for all involved and would lead to much greater stability and peaceful cooperation in global public policy.


i support that as well.
yet, in no way do i intend on leaving out any of the emerging asian powers (specifically, India and China). i really think if the US, Japan, and the EU do not keep up, those two powers will surpass us in my lifetime.

all said and done, i grow weary of "us v them" thinking. one earth, one people, one future for our children.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I haven't dug deep enough to comment on India, but I do know if they don't get their AIDS problem under control they will not get very far.

As for China I did extensive research at Fudan University (Shanghai China). While their GDP grows at 10% a year the quantifiable environmental damage they are doing to their own county is at about 10.2% of their GDP. I am talking about real measurable damage, toxic rivers etc. Who know's what the real numbers are if you could quantify things like Global Warming? So my point is in the next 15-20 years this will catch up with China and they will be paying a heavy price. They are playing "games" with their currency and trashing their natural resources at obscene rates to sustain their GDP. The pentagon has issued several alarming reports about China's rapid military build up. One was just issued last week. The Chinese are adjusting to their new found wealth and when there "bubble" bursts there will be hell to pay, when food doesn't cross borders an Army will! So unless China stops playing the "short term game" I would kick them out of the WTO, and highly restrict trade. China's out of control consumption is 99.9% responsible for our current gas prices. New car purchases increase by 25% every quarter in China. Most of these are first time car buyers. They are sucking up the world's supply of oil. They are also sucking up the world's supply of cooking oil. China is a huge problem on so many economic levels. Firms are enchanted by this huge market they can sell to. There are no Chinese brands or products, so when American Standard or Toto manufactures toilets in China, about a 1/3 of them stay in China for local consumption. It's the same for most products. I visited Mercedes in China and rode in a 100% Chinese made E-Class, they can't keep up with demand. The growth rate in China is absolutely not sustainable and I am very concerned for the future.

An interesting side note on recycling, Wal Mart brings over about $200 billion worth of goods from China to the US, every year. When the boats return back to China, they are loaded with our trash. China takes our garbage recycles it into cheap crap and Wal Mart sells us back our own garbage. Clever to say the least.
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Postby Boxguy » Sun May 27, 2007 12:29 am

Shintaro Ishihara wrote:The Chinese are adjusting to their new found wealth and when there "bubble" bursts there will be hell to pay, when food doesn't cross borders an Army will!

That's one thing I've been concerned about. What will the consequences be for the Far East and potentially the rest of the world both economically and socially when those mock invasions of Taiwan that China stages for the cameras actually go to the real live thing? It's discomforting to think of the ramifications, to say the least. The playing of the China card by Nixon and Kissinger may come back to slap us then.
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