The Smiths (eponymous)

Discuss each of the albums here.

Postby Mal_Adjusted » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm

Your favourite track: This Charming Man

Your worst track: Suffer Little Children

Best lyric: this man said its gruesome that someone so handsome should care

Song/lyric/line you relate to most/has relevance to you: people see no worth in you oh but i do

Overall opinion of album, how it compares to others, etc.: least fave studio but definately has its moments
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Postby elko » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:41 am

<!--QuoteBegin-Noonan McKane+Nov 16 2004, 03:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Noonan McKane @ Nov 16 2004, 03:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I love it. I have since I first heard it. I can take the point about the way it's produced, how spare it all sounds, how mechanical and detached, but one has to remember the musical climate it was released into, in 1984. I recall some of the music papers sneeringly dismissing John Porter as a 'carpetbagger'; an opportunist hastily getting the latest 'darlings of the underground' down on tape ASAP before they went out of fashion. But I can't possibly agree. I mean, have you ever heard "Rio" or "Seven And The Ragged Tiger" by Duran Duran? How long must those overdubs have taken? I think Porter's treatment of The Smiths' debut was very much considered, and was very deliberate in being a reaction to the aforementioned production values, which even yet are popularly held as being 'that eighties sound'. (I just thought: Isn't one track produced by someone else, Troy Tate out of The Teardrop Explodes? Is it? Can't be arsed going to check. You can fill me in)

Anyway, I find it very difficult to fault. I still find it incredible to think that the British right-wing press were able to convince the public that The Smiths were maudlin, depressed and uninspiring when the singles used to plug their debut LP were "Hand In Glove" and "What Difference Does It Make"; the latter of which could leap out of pub jukeboxes and go about it's business easily as effectively as "Jumping Jack Flash" or "Cum On Feel The Noize" could.

I was always intrigued by the fact that "The Hand That Rocks The Cradle" seemed to consist of just one, very long verse; And I was made slightly uncomfortable by Morrissey's (apparent) ad-lib: "...and your mother she must never know..", coming, as it seemed to, immediately after his direct quoting of Al Jolson: "Climb upon my knee, sonny boy. Although you're only three, sonny boy. You're mine..."

It was "Suffer Little Children", though, which had The Sun and The News Of The World foaming at the mouth. With it's lyrical content describing the worst, most
awful crimes ever committed in this country, and containing as it did, actual quotations from one of the perpetrators of those crimes (shades, again of The Rolling Stones "Midnight Rambler"), Morrissey was ACTUALLY libeled, on more than one occasion, in the aforementioned papers, not simply of condoning sexual offences, but of actually BEING a former sex offender! Amazingly, no one sued anyone.
"Suffer Little Children", whilst being uncomfortable listening, and hardly what one may term 'entertainment', is, nonetheless, inspired by a book about the moors murders entitled "Beyond Belief", which is written in a theoretical, first-person-narrative style "by" Myra Hindley. It's very harrowing to read. For Morrissey to make an artistic comment on it was brave and innovative. The hook-line he penned for the song; "Oh, Manchester, so much to answer for....." has since entered the public conscienceness......



PS. Another wee point: I see some of you listing "This Charming Man" as a song from "The Smiths". It isn't actually on the debut, and was only added, by Warner Bros, to the CD. It was one of those great "stand-alone" singles, that all the great bands tend to have ("Jumping Jack Flash", "Hey Jude") which isn't on any album, and even the 'Hatful Of Hollow' version is a radio session version. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You really should write for a living. Actually, for all I know, you already do...

As for This Charming Man, I had no idea about that, I really thought it was no the original album. Couldn't find any info through Google, so then I tried eBay...

This one says it's on there...

<a href='http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43708&item=4051682049&rd=1' target='_blank'>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...4051682049&rd=1</a>

This one says it isn't...

<a href='http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43708&item=4051682049&rd=1' target='_blank'>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...4051682049&rd=1</a>

Well, you know better than I do, having been there and all that. You learn something new everyday I suppose, even if it is random Smiths trivia <!--emo&:ph34r:-->Image<!--endemo-->
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Postby tallulahtaurus » Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:25 pm

I will really have to come back and give my comments on this very good post or thread when I have thought about it but I wanted to get my four pence in about Babarism begins at home, I think I may have been the only person who believed that it was one of the few songs that actually didn't outstay it's welcome even though it should have done - what with being so long. I personally believe Meat is Murder is my favourite Smiths album - but I will clarify thise once I've thought about it more!
<span style='color:purple'>Romantic and square is hip and aware - J.M.

Talent borrows genius steals

Gasping dying but somehow still alive this is the fierce last stand of all I am</span>
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Postby girl_afraid » Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:35 pm

Oh, I have had SUCH a Barbarism... epiphany recently, haha. I was listening to it the other day and I suddenly realised what an amazing song it actually is, and I can't understand why Johnny thought it was "cheesy" anymore either. I had the same sort of thing with Some Girls..., the live version is so superior, it sounds wonderful live, all acoustic and gorgeous.

OK, I'm going off-topic now <!--emo&;)-->Image<!--endemo-->
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I decree today that life is simply taking and not giving
England is mine, it owes me a living
But ask me why and I'll spit in your eye
Oh, ask me why and I'll spit in your eye
But we cannot cling to the old dreams anymore
No, we cannot cling to those dreams
Does the body rule the mind or does the mind rule the body?
I dunno...
Under the iron bridge we kissed
And although I ended up with sore lips
It just wasn't like the old days anymore
No, it wasn't like those days
Am I still ill...?
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Postby tallulahtaurus » Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:59 am

Aaah you have finally seen the light Girl Afraid, the live version is also very very good, as Some Girls fantastique. I just like Babarism because it's so funky and just wonderful, I will have to relisten to The Queen is Dead and Meat is Murder to comment about how great they are and in what peculiar ways I found them wonderful!!!
<span style='color:purple'>Romantic and square is hip and aware - J.M.

Talent borrows genius steals

Gasping dying but somehow still alive this is the fierce last stand of all I am</span>
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Postby tallulahtaurus » Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:25 pm

Ohkay <span style='color:purple'>The Smiths</span>

<span style='color:purple'>FAVOURITE TRACK</span>
shy guy, you are not alone I love Miserable Lie too, but I would say that Suffer Little Children is stand out, it gives me chills to listen to it the moving powerful effect is not diminished no matter how many times I hear it!!! also am a bit of a fan of I don't owe you anything - ace!


<span style='color:purple'>WORST TRACK</span>
Without doubt it has to be Reel Around the Fountain, I don't think the production is quite up to scratch. It doesn't sound right, I didn't especially like it on Hatful of Hollow but here it is exceptionally awful!!


<span style='color:purple'>BEST LYRICS</span>
"Did I ever tell you by the way, I never really liked your face?"
"I know that windswept mystical air, it means I'd like to see your underwear."
"...a smile lights up her stupid face and well it would."


<span style='color:purple'>LYRIC I RELATE TO</span>
"I need advice, I need advice because nobody ever looks at me twice..." sums it up!!!!

<span style='color:purple'>OVERALL OPINION OF THE ALBUM COMPARED TO OTHERS </span>
In terms of the studio albums it would rank third, better than Strangeways but Queen and Meat are better!! I think that it has the essential ingredients but the atmospheric element to the smiths music are not developed much here, Suffer Little Children is the only thing to give me shivers a shame!!
Last edited by tallulahtaurus on Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<span style='color:purple'>Romantic and square is hip and aware - J.M.

Talent borrows genius steals

Gasping dying but somehow still alive this is the fierce last stand of all I am</span>
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Postby elko » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:37 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-tallulahtaurus+Dec 29 2004, 11:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tallulahtaurus @ Dec 29 2004, 11:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ohkay <span style='color:purple'>The Smiths</span>

<span style='color:purple'>FAVOURITE TRACK</span>
shy guy, you are not alone I love Miserable Lie too, but I would say that Suffer Little Children is stand out, it gives me chills to listen to it the moving powerful effect is not diminished no matter how many times I hear it!!!


<span style='color:purple'>WORST TRACK</span>
Without doubt it has to be Reel Around the Fountain, I don't think the production is quite up to scratch. It doesn't sound right, I didn't especially like it on Hatful of Hollow but here it is exceptionally awful!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Strange, that's pretty much the reversal of my choices. Reel Around The Fountain is utterly beautiful, and on Hatful.. its probably even better. It was going to be thier next single before all the ridicuous allegations were printed, which probably shows how high The Smiths held it in their won estimation.
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Postby tallulahtaurus » Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:12 pm

Yeh I guess they must really have liked it but at the same time I really don't - as much as I can bring myself to dislike any Smiths song!!!! alas I also like What Difference Does it make and Morrissey hated that perhaps this whole astrology thing about me having the same Mercury (thinking) astrology sign as Moz is actually all crap!!!! In fact scratch that it is crap!! (I want to believe it though!)
Last edited by tallulahtaurus on Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<span style='color:purple'>Romantic and square is hip and aware - J.M.

Talent borrows genius steals

Gasping dying but somehow still alive this is the fierce last stand of all I am</span>
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Postby girl_afraid » Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:41 pm

God, I LOVE Reel, it's one of my favourite ever songs! I like What Difference Does It Make? too, I can see why Morrissey would dislike it (it's probably the most 80s-ish song they ever did, to my mind anyway), but I love it so! <!--emo&:)-->Image<!--endemo-->
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I decree today that life is simply taking and not giving
England is mine, it owes me a living
But ask me why and I'll spit in your eye
Oh, ask me why and I'll spit in your eye
But we cannot cling to the old dreams anymore
No, we cannot cling to those dreams
Does the body rule the mind or does the mind rule the body?
I dunno...
Under the iron bridge we kissed
And although I ended up with sore lips
It just wasn't like the old days anymore
No, it wasn't like those days
Am I still ill...?
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Postby rubygirl » Sat Feb 19, 2005 12:03 am

<span style='color:purple'>God, I love What Difference Does it Make too - it's got probably my favourite intro to a Smiths'song - I just can't get enough of that riff!
So, The Smiths:
<span style='color:red'>
Your favourite track:</span> I cannot really choose only one - I've managed to narrow my tiop choices to two - Pretty Girls make Graves and What Difference Does It Make. Great tunes with great lyrics - what more would I possibly want?

<span style='color:blue'>Your worst track:</span> Ain't no doubt about it - Miserable Lie. I've tried to like it time and time again - to no effect. It's even become worse - now it has satrted to really annoy me!

<span style='color:orange'>Best lyric: </span>All men have secrets and here is mine/ So let it be known...

<span style='color:green'>Song/lyric/line you relate to most/has relevance to you:</span> I can't say the songs really relate to my life or my state of being. But maybe that's what attracts me - they make me leave my usual state of seeing things and enter another. And I love this.

Overall opinion of album, how it compares to others, etc.:</span> Oh, I hate to compare things, I am not good at this at all - my brain just refuses to function that way. It would be easier for me to jujst state that I like this album a lot and rate it very high. I see it as more raw, more experimental than the others. Sometimes I get the feeling it is less accessible than the later albums: when I play Smiths' material to my friends, they usually like (or at least don't mind) the songs from MIM and TQID, but no-one ever has liked The Smiths - not even one bit of it! And I hear things like: "This is so strange" or "Why are these tracks so unpolished, couldn't they sound more like U2(!?)".
Maybe it's the ünposhedness" of this album that I like - even the finest production can't have the impact raw emotion and pure inspiration have.

<span style='color:purple'>God, I love What Difference Does it Make too - it's got probably my favourite intro to a Smiths'song - I just can't get enough of that riff!
So, The Smiths:

Your favourite track: I cannot really choose only one - I've managed to narrow my tiop choices to two - Pretty Girls make Graves and What Difference Does It Make. Great tunes with great lyrics - what more would I possibly want?

Your worst track: Ain't no doubt about it - Miserable Lie. I've tried to like it time and time again - to no effect. It's even become worse - now it has satrted to really annoy me!

Best lyric: All men have secrets and here is mine/ So let it be known...

Song/lyric/line you relate to most/has relevance to you: I can't say the songs really relate to my life or my state of being. But maybe that's what attracts me - they make me leave my usual state of seeing things and enter another. And I love this.

Overall opinion of album, how it compares to others, etc.:</span> Oh, I hate to compare things, I am not good at this at all - my brain just refuses to function that way. It would be easier for me to jujst state that I like this album a lot and rate it very high. I see it as more raw, more experimental than the others. Sometimes I get the feeling it is less accessible than the later albums: when I play Smiths' material to my friends, they usually like (or at least don't mind) the songs from MIM and TQID, but no-one ever has liked The Smiths - not even one bit of it! And I hear things like: "This is so strange" or "Why are these tracks so unpolished, couldn't they sound more like U2(!?)".
Maybe it's the ünposhedness" of this album that I like - even the finest production can't have the impact raw emotion and pure inspiration have.

<span style='color:green'>And speaking of the debut album, I remembered I have this little joke:</span>
<a href='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/rubygirlxmm/pic141620.jpg' target='_blank'>pic</a>
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Postby girl_afraid » Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:36 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-rubygirl+Feb 19 2005, 12:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rubygirl @ Feb 19 2005, 12:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I see it as more raw, more experimental than the others. Sometimes I get the feeling it is less accessible than the later albums: when I play Smiths' material to my friends, they usually like (or at least don't mind) the songs from MIM and TQID, but no-one ever has liked The Smiths - not even one bit of it! And I hear things like: "This is so strange" or "Why are these tracks so unpolished, couldn't they sound more like U2(!?)". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, I completely agree! A while ago I made my friend a load of Smiths compilation CDs to try and get her into them, and I managed fairly successfully - she agreed to come to the Morrissey concert with me and loves There Is A Light, but she really dislikes their earlier work. She even said that Still Ill was 'weird'. <!--emo&:blink:-->Image<!--endemo--> But although it is the hardest album to get into, I also think that it's the one that comes to mean the most once you are into it. Most of the others have big political themes, which, although undoubtedly important, are harder to relate to on an everyday level. So I guess that means that, ironically, the least accessible album has the most accessible themes...

Can't believe your friend said that should sound more like U2 though, eeeugh!!
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I decree today that life is simply taking and not giving
England is mine, it owes me a living
But ask me why and I'll spit in your eye
Oh, ask me why and I'll spit in your eye
But we cannot cling to the old dreams anymore
No, we cannot cling to those dreams
Does the body rule the mind or does the mind rule the body?
I dunno...
Under the iron bridge we kissed
And although I ended up with sore lips
It just wasn't like the old days anymore
No, it wasn't like those days
Am I still ill...?
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Postby Bobby » Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:59 pm

Your favourite track: Agh! errr....Hand That Rocks The Cradle, The Charming Man, I Don't Owe You Anything, Reel Around the Fountain....all of them really!

Your worst track: errr...I haven't really got one!

Best lyric: "I dreampt about you last night and I fell out of bed twice"

Song/lyric/line you relate to most/has relevance to you: Probably 'Still Ill' but I haven't really thought about it.

Overall opinion of album, how it compares to others, etc.: I think it stands up as one of the best debuts of all time. It's probably my second fave Smiths album, or maybe even my absolute fave. The art work is amazing and striking, the songs just speak for themselves everything about it is perfect!
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Postby Sweet and Tender Hooligan » Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:03 pm

i got this album last which must be a bit weird really, i'll do a review soon but i am a bit sad about the disk- i got that the times of the tracks on the songs above the hole are all mainly taken away for some reason so its unreadable anyone else got that??
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Postby WordsAsOldAsSin » Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:23 pm

favourite track: The hand that rocks the cradle <!--emo&:B-->Image<!--endemo-->

worst track: i dont dislike any of them but my least favourite is probably i dont owe you anything

Best lyric: "she wants it now, and she will not wiat but shes too rough and im too deilcate " pretty girls make graves <!--emo&:D-->Image<!--endemo-->

Song/lyric/line you relate to most/has relevance to you: " people see no worth in you oh but i do" reel around the fountain, i was feeling really low about myself and i heard that and it kinda cheered me up!

Overall opinion of album, how it compares to others, etc i: i love it , i love all the albums the same! i actually dont have a favourite album but ill listen to this album when im in a mellow mood, it all depends on my mood really! but i do love it!
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Postby BigmouthSA » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:18 pm

Your favourite track: So difficult to choose! Probably Youve Got Everything Now.

Your worst track: Again, difficult. Probably Hand That Rocks the Cradle which grows a bit thin musically after a while, in my opinion, and because I cant really relate to the lyrics as well as I can the other songs. Miserable Lie is disapointing in a sense in that the beggining is great, I just think the falsetto part ruins it a little.

Best lyric: Your prejudice wont keep you warm tonight!

Song/lyric/line you relate to most/has relevance to you: Song wise, at this moment, Youve got everything now, closely followed by Pretty Girls Make Graves.

Overall opinion of album, how it compares to others, etc.: I think quite honestly its an excellent album. My favourite album changes all the time, but this one is regularly at the top of my personal charts, as it were. It catches The Smiths at their raw best in my opinion, although I dont know much about production and such like, ive heard people say that its quite a poorly produced album.
Last edited by BigmouthSA on Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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