Atmosphere for Young Smiths Fans

All about The Smiths' music, gigs, stories, anything.

Postby tallulahtaurus » Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:09 pm

Aaah hidden treasures, eh!! I agree ruby girl I used to presume everyone was like I am and that they couoldn't live without music but so many people think it's odd that I take my iPod with me wherever I go that I wonder...

William's Wish Wellingtons takes me back, not to a happy place mind, but it certainly takes me back! <!--emo&:lol:-->Image<!--endemo-->
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Postby elko » Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:14 pm

All I can remember is the theme tune, it was on a tape of kid's theme tunes...'Williams! Williams Wish Wellingtons!' Brilliant, I have to find that.

I also take the iPod most everywhere, it's half full now, so it's proving ever more invaluable. Shockingly, there are no Smiths songs on my Top 25 Played playlist.
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Postby tallulahtaurus » Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:32 pm

I know I find it alarming to look at the things that I play the most, The smiths are in my top 25, some corkers like William it was really nothing and Some Girls and some odd ones that I would never have guessed I'd listened to that much like Money changes Everything??? Stretch out and wait??? <!--emo&:huh:-->Image<!--endemo-->

I am mystified and confused by my behaviour sometimes...!!!?
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Postby Still Ill » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:01 pm

I grew up with music all around me. My dad was a big music fan and he loved motown best. Probably why I still love it. (My dad passed away of illness 7 years ago. My mom has recently started listening to music, her current kick is Steven Ray Vaughn and the like, CCR, etc) I used to experiment with his 4 track tape player (those big reels) and record and edit music off the radio. Anyhow, it does seem that music doesn't get played around the house as much as one gets older. I still always listen to music, everyday. I think as my kids get older they'll appreciate that I do love music. I definitely don't want to become what I'm reading here!
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Postby girl_afraid » Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:06 am

<!--QuoteBegin-elko+Jan 17 2005, 04:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (elko @ Jan 17 2005, 04:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All I can remember is the theme tune, it was on a tape of kid's theme tunes...'Williams! Williams Wish Wellingtons!' Brilliant, I have to find that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sadly, I can remember quite a lot of the theme tune... "You know you're gonna have a lot of fun when William puts on his wellingtons" and so on.

Weirdly, William, It Was Really Nothing is the song that's been listened to most on my iPod, even though I wouldn't put it in my top 10 Smiths songs. Rubber Ring is fairly high up, as is There Is A Light and other CLASSICS. Haha, that O-Zone song is also on the most played since my friend used to steal my iPod (before she got her own) and listen to it all the time. Stuff I'm currently addicted to is in there as well, so I have quite a bit of Suede - I've listened to Heroine a ridiculous amount for something I've had for such a short time, 10 times or more. I suddenly have Life On Mars? in my head.
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Postby Qvist » Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:19 am

Hello all

This was a very interesting thread to read. The first thing I must say is that it made me feel quite old to see people writing about how their parents like or dislike The Smiths and realising those parents must be about my age. <!--emo&:lol:-->Image<!--endemo-->

The second thing that strikes me is how little has changed in the past 20 years. I discovered The Smiths in 1984 when I was 14, was an instant fan, and could have described my experience with being so in very much the same words as those of you who are now young. At least after a few years, when I was in high school and the last two or three albums had made enough of an impact to make at least some people aware of their existence, even if most of those people did not like them, and considered it a mark of oddness to do so. But there were at least 4 or 5 people among my friends who were fans, as well as a few who really hated them, mostly because they found Morrissey's voice unbearable and the lyrics whining. But in the circle of friends I hanged out with on high schoool, The Smiths were pretty much one of the defining elements for us as a social group, along with David Bowie and The The's masterpiece Infected (which was universally admired among us). It is however with satisfaction I note that several of those who used to detest them have come around eventually. Among them is one mate who refused to listen to anything on the soft side of Deep Purple, and another who were into Pink floyd and shite like Level 42 and Toto - he went to Manchester to study, and within a year found himself converted. I guess it must have been a shocking experience for him to live in a city where The Smiths were actually rather popular. <!--emo&:)-->Image<!--endemo-->

But back in the Hatful of Hollow/Meat is Murder days, you didn't get much resonance at all from being a Smiths fan, literally in the middle of the woods out on the Norwegian countryside. Perhaps that was one of the reasons why their music made such sense - your taste in music didn't have to stray far from Smokie or Iron Maiden before you were basically on your own, to listen to something like The Smiths was in some respects to choose to be alone. In fact, in many ways The Smiths, and the fact of liking The Smiths, epitomised my whole state of being at the time - almost none of the things I liked or which interested me seemed to have any meaning at all to the community I was part of by default, and though most of the other music I listened to (The Cure, Japan, David Bowie, New Order, Depeche Mode, Swedish act Lustans Lakejer) went equally unheralded, it was The Smiths that somehow had a defining character, perhaps because that was about more than just music, extending ultimately to a certain feeling about life (which can hardly be said for, say, Japan or Depeche Mode). But it never occurred to me to not own up to liking them, perhaps because my taste in music was so far removed from that of almost all other people in my vicinity that the outsider status was a given anyway. I took solace in the secure knowledge that I was right and they were wrong, and in a largely futile missionary zeal. <!--emo&:)-->Image<!--endemo-->

I think it would probably be fair to say that the appeal of The Smiths to people of an independent bent who happen to find themselves growing up someplace small, narrow-minded and bleak borders on the archetypal (though,like all great art, it is of course not limited to any specific circumstances). For instance, one of the most accomplished of contemporary Norwegian novelists, Frode Grytten, based his most successful novel to date more or less directly on The queen is dead album, and is known to be a fanatical fan. The novel is set in his home town of Odda, a small industrial community in a narrow mountain valley in western Norway, and a place as appropriately described as "the industrial north" as Manchester could be, after all. There's not much literature being written today that owes anything at all to Wham! or Def Leppard, and presumably there's not going to much literature written in 20 years that owes anything to the music filling the charts today.

Incidentally, among the relatively limited number of people I know who are Smiths fans are both my wife and my former girlfriend for more than a decade, which leads me to speculate that these things probably do matter, at some level.


cheers
Last edited by Qvist on Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Still Ill » Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:27 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-Qvist+Apr 6 2005, 12:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Qvist @ Apr 6 2005, 12:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...to listen to something like The Smiths was in some respects to choose to be alone. In fact, in many ways The Smiths, and the fact of liking The Smiths, epitomised my whole state of being at the time - almost none of the things I liked or which interested me seemed to have any meaning at all to the community I was part of by default, and though most of the other music I listened to (The Cure, Japan, David Bowie, New Order, Depeche Mode, Swedish act Lustans Lakejer) went equally unheralded, it was The Smiths that somehow had a defining character, perhaps because that was about more than just music, extending ultimately to a certain feeling about life (which can hardly be said for, say, Japan or Depeche Mode). But it never occurred to me to not own up to liking them, perhaps because my taste in music was so far removed from that of almost all other people in my vicinity that the outsider status was a given anyway. I took solace in the secure knowledge that I was right and they were wrong, and in a largely futile missionary zeal.  <!--emo&:)-->Image<!--endemo-->

...I think it would probably be fair to say that the appeal of The Smiths to people of an independent bent who happen to find themselves growing up someplace small, narrow-minded and bleak borders on the archetypal (though,like all great art, it is of course not limited to any specific circumstances). For instance, one of the most accomplished of contemporary Norwegian novelists, Frode Grytten, based his most successful novel to date more or less directly on The queen is dead album, and is known to be a fanatical fan. The novel is set in his home town of Odda, a small industrial community in a narrow mountain valley in western Norway, and a place as appropriately described as "the industrial north" as Manchester could be, after all. There's not much literature being written today that owes anything at all to Wham! or Def Leppard, and presumably there's not going to much literature written in 20 years that owes anything to the music filling the charts today.

Incidentally, among the relatively limited number of people I know who are Smiths fans are both my wife and my former girlfriend for more than a decade, which leads me to speculate that these things probably do matter, at some level.


cheers<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Welcome to the forum. Fascinating to read your response Qvist. Again, the same vein being that the ardent Smiths fan was relegated to being a (somewhat proud or chosen) outsider! How did you stumble upon us?

Also I vaguely recall the name Grytten, which has been mentioned in Morrissey-solo before. Here is a link from the site that goes into the detail of his book "Bikubesong" that I found:

<a href='http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=frode+grytten+in+english&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3Dbfa8943a78830eb9%26clickedItemRank%3D2%26userQuery%3Dfrode%2Bgrytten%2Bin%2Benglish%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.morrissey-solo.com%252Findex.pl%253Fissue%253D20050308%2526mode%253D%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSCPResults%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.morrissey-solo.com%2Findex.pl%253Fissue%253D20050308%2526mode%253D' target='_blank'>http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.js...8%2526mode%253D</a>
(edit you'll have to scroll down to the 4th story and click on the nove'ls name, I couldn't get a direct link.)
Last edited by Still Ill on Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby rubygirl » Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:48 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-Qvist+Apr 6 2005, 11:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Qvist @ Apr 6 2005, 11:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hello all

This was a very interesting thread to read. The first thing I must say is that it made me feel quite old to see people writing about how their parents like or dislike The Smiths and realising those parents must be about my age.  <!--emo&:lol:-->Image<!--endemo-->

<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hello, Qvist!
This was a very appealing post for me to read! It alqays gives me such a thrill when new people join and you could get in touch with their different experiences!
The first thing I will say is don't feel old - the fact you were 14 in 1984 means to me you've had the opportunity to enjoy The Smiths for much longer than I have - for I don't even have conscious memories from 1984! And my parents were born in 1957, many years befeore you <!--emo&:P-->Image<!--endemo-->

On a more serious note, I must say I read your post very carefully a few times because I can very much relate to the things you're saying - I was an instant fan too, only I that was 16 in the summer of 1996 when I first heard The Smiths.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But back in the Hatful of Hollow/Meat is Murder days, you didn't get much resonance at all from being a Smiths fan, literally in the middle of the woods out on the Norwegian countryside. Perhaps that was one of the reasons why their music made such sense - your taste in music didn't have to stray far from Smokie or Iron Maiden before you were basically on your own, to listen to something like The Smiths was in some respects to choose to be alone. In fact, in many ways The Smiths, and the fact of liking The Smiths, epitomised my whole state of being at the time - almost none of the things I liked or which interested me seemed to have any meaning at all to the community I was part of by default<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could get no resonance at all from being a Smiths fan in the not-small-but-not-really-big-town in the middle of the valley where I grew up. There were three camps in my high school - the victims of the Take That mania (at its peak in the mid-nineties) and the Nirvana followers and the ones who thought that listening to some 70thies classic rock is the way to rediscover the holy grail. I've never been among the popular kids in high school, but when I come to think about it, I set myself even more apart with my musical preferences, and The Smiths were the culmination of this process. <!--emo&B)-->Image<!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Incidentally, among the relatively limited number of people I know who are Smiths fans are both my wife and my former girlfriend for more than a decade, which leads me to speculate that these things probably do matter, at some level. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am sure they do - maybe as a sign of being "on the same wave length"or something of the kind <!--emo&:P-->Image<!--endemo-->
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Postby Qvist » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:07 pm

Welcome to the forum. Fascinating to read your response Qvist. Again, the same vein being that the ardent Smiths fan was relegated to being a (somewhat proud or chosen) outsider! How did you stumble upon us?

Also I vaguely recall the name Grytten, which has been mentioned in Morrissey-solo before. Here is a link from the site that goes into the detail of his book "Bikubesong" that I found:

<a href='http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.js...8%2526mode%253D' target='_blank'>http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.js...8%2526mode%253D</a>
(edit you'll have to scroll down to the 4th story and click on the nove'ls name, I couldn't get a direct link.)[QUOTE]

Hi StillIll

Thanks for the welcome. I'd clean forgotten about the fact that they have also turned this book into a theatre piece, playing to full houses in Oslo. In fact, they have turned it into a sort of musical, with several Smiths songs being performed. Quite good, according to a friend of mine who went to see it (and who was one of those fellow Smiths-fans at school). Haven't been able to see it myself unfortunately, as I live elsewhere.

I didn't really stumble upon you - being in the middle of one of those periodic bouts of getting all my Smiths-records out (funny how that always seems to happen during the first days of spring <!--emo&:)-->Image<!--endemo--> ), and being a bit bored at work, I went googling for a Smiths discussion forum actually.

cheers
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Postby Still Ill » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:19 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-rubygirl+Apr 6 2005, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rubygirl @ Apr 6 2005, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You could get no resonance at all from being a Smiths fan in the not-small-but-not-really-big-town in the middle of the valley where I grew up. There were three camps in my high school - the victims of the Take That mania (at its peak in the mid-nineties) and the Nirvana followers and the ones who thought that  listening to some 70thies classic rock is the way to rediscover the holy grail. I've never been among the popular kids in high school, but when I come to think about it, I set myself even more apart with my musical preferences, and The Smiths were the culmination of this process. <!--emo&B)-->Image<!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I agree with you whole-heartedly rubygirl.

Slightly off topic, just last night a friend was over and I tried to play some classic Smiths concert footage (Rockapalast). He wanted to hear "How Soon Is Now", but of course that song was not around then! Anyhow, point being that he was surprised at how upbeat their music was, though I doubt think he'll be searching for their music anytime soon. I told him to really, really listen to some of their stuff. People are just misinformed about their music unless you've really listened for yourself.
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Postby Qvist » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:20 pm

Hello, Qvist!
This was a very appealing post for me to read! It alqays gives me such a thrill when new people join and you could get in touch with their different experiences!
The first thing I will say is don't feel old - the fact you were 14 in 1984 means to me you've had the opportunity to enjoy The Smiths for much longer than I have - for I don't even have conscious memories from 1984! And my parents were born in 1957, many years befeore you tongue.gif
-------------------------

Hi Ruby

Thanks for the nice words - I don't generally feel old, it was just a momentary thing

----------
On a more serious note, I must say I read your post very carefully a few times because I can very much relate to the things you're saying - I was an instant fan too, only I that was 16 in the summer of 1996 when I first heard The Smiths.
----------

I'm glad you found it interesting. It seems the experience is not so different. <!--emo&:)-->Image<!--endemo-->

------------
You could get no resonance at all from being a Smiths fan in the not-small-but-not-really-big-town in the middle of the valley where I grew up. There were three camps in my high school - the victims of the Take That mania (at its peak in the mid-nineties) and the Nirvana followers and the ones who thought that listening to some 70thies classic rock is the way to rediscover the holy grail. I've never been among the popular kids in high school, but when I come to think about it, I set myself even more apart with my musical preferences, and The Smiths were the culmination of this process.
------------

Hehe, in the mid-eighties, it was more Status Quo/Elvis Presley/Slade (if you were one of the drinking footballing lads), Mezzoforte/Level 42/Sting (if you were one of the slick christians), any long-haired falsetto-vocalled metal band (if you were into, well, metal) or Wham/Phil Collins etc (if you weren't really into music).

--------
I am sure they do - maybe as a sign of being "on the same wave length"or something of the kind tongue.gif
-------

Exactly! As said, it's something to do with a particular way of experiencing life too.


cheers <!--emo&:)-->Image<!--endemo-->
Last edited by Qvist on Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby rubygirl » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:22 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-Qvist+Apr 6 2005, 05:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Qvist @ Apr 6 2005, 05:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I didn't really stumble upon you - being in the middle of one of those periodic bouts of getting all my Smiths-records out (funny how that always seems to happen during the first days of spring <!--emo&:)-->Image<!--endemo--> ), and being a bit bored at work, I went googling for a Smiths discussion forum actually.

cheers<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very good that you did so <!--emo&:P-->Image<!--endemo-->
I have the feeling your presence on this board will be very enjoyable!
Last edited by rubygirl on Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Still Ill » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:26 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-Qvist+Apr 6 2005, 06:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Qvist @ Apr 6 2005, 06:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->.. or Wham/Phil Collins etc (if you weren't really into music).
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was very funny. <!--emo&:P-->Image<!--endemo-->

Although I have to admit, a lot of music I was exposed to or (ahem, listened to, choice that I had back then) that I didn't particularly care for, I have gotten to at least appreciate, but it still doesn't include Wham or Phil Collins.
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Postby rubygirl » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:54 pm

My parents used to listen to Wham! a lot in the mid 80thies, they really did <!--emo&:P-->Image<!--endemo--> <!--emo&:P-->Image<!--endemo--> <!--emo&:P-->Image<!--endemo-->
Last Christmas was constantly played in our house. And so was Rod Stewart. Though I wouldn't much agree with their tastes, I am quite grateful to my parents for the fact that they've always been very intersted in music and there's always been a lot of music playing at our house.
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Postby Still Ill » Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:25 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-rubygirl+Apr 6 2005, 06:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rubygirl @ Apr 6 2005, 06:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My parents used to listen to Wham! a lot in the mid 80thies, they really did <!--emo&:P-->Image<!--endemo-->  <!--emo&:P-->Image<!--endemo-->  <!--emo&:P-->Image<!--endemo-->
Last Christmas was constantly played in our house. And so was Rod Stewart. Though I wouldn't much agree with their tastes, I am quite grateful to my parents for the fact that they've always been very intersted in music and there's always been a lot of music playing at our house.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I recently saw a VH1 programme on George Michael. Pretty tragic life, which explains why he disappeared for a long while there. I actually found it fascinating. Fame and tragedy of one form another just seem to go hand in hand.

Will we be listening to music years and years and years from now? Do people stop listening to music at some point in their later years in life? Rhetorical, I know, but I often get curious. Eh, just a thought. I think if you grew up with music around the house, most likely you'll always surround yourself with music.
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