sigh.....

For all things concerning Moz's solo career.

Postby elko » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:53 pm

Or; Another Reason To Hate The NME

<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/28/nmorrissey128.xml" target="_blank">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...orrissey128.xml</a>
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Postby Truman Capote » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:33 pm

Somebody should scan this article/interview, I would really like to read it. About racism... I think it's just paranoia, he's not a racist, he never was, people who read the interview say race wasn't even discussed. A nasty title on the cover of a magazine won't make him a racist.

And what about the credits? "Interview - Tim Jonze; Words - NME".
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Postby weasey » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:55 am

Hmm, who is worse? Morrissey or the NME? This is possibly the greater mystery. I disagree with Morrissey but I still understand his opinion. Hopefully he won't be adopted by the BNP as a kind of poster boy. Conor McNicholas is a righteous dickhead who does not help matters at all 'look at me! look how liberal and good I am! I hate the BNP sooo much!' Well duh, so does everyone, big deal. They seem to require a whipping boy who symbolises the kind of jaded conservatism it's easy to lay in to in order to look cool, Morrissey serves this purpose as far as they are concerned.

They seem to think the issue is 'Anyone one that uses the word 'Traditional' or 'Immigration' is a 'Racist''
But England doesn't exist does it? It just gets in the way of us all sitting round for tea together. Silly NME, Silly Morrissey.

PS. How quaint could Stretford in the 1970s possibly have been? He is lamenting something that never exisited. Typical ex-pat, Romanticist artist. Honestly
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Postby Cracked Pleasures » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:30 pm

He meanwhile has announced he wants to take NME to court for it.

I sincerely hope he did not really say those things. If he has, I will be extremely disappointed in him. These words are exactly the same sort of shit (sorry for the word) that has ruined the politics in my native Belgium and made society crawl for the far right-wing parties. The words really disgust me, I cannot find a different word for it. I really hope he did not say those things for real, and that NME just took things out of context. The fact that Moz starts a lawsuit over it must mean he did not say those exact words, why else would he be so angry over the article that was published? So until I know for sure he said these words, I consider him innocent and blame it on NME. But if it turns out Moz really said those words that were published, I can only say I strongly disagree with him and that I consider racism of any forms amongst the worst sicknesses of the modern world. I would never stop listening to the Smiths even if he said these words for real, however I would be strongly disappointed.
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Postby helmoz » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:49 pm

hmm... i am disappointed, but i think it is his choice of words, rather than his opinions, that really come across as being far-right.
i overhear people using emotive words like "floodgates" all the time because they've read them in the mail/sun/express or they learnt them from someone else who reads those papers. some people who use that kind of language really are racist, but some people using those words are just naive and actually seem to have moderate opinions which are unfortunately expressed using the kind of language normally used by racists.
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Postby madmancmonkey » Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:14 pm

I am afraid Moz gave the NME what 'they' wanted.

I am doing critical discourse analysis at the moment and the lexis is pretty convincing ... i.e 'floodgates'. But it isn't racist, maybe ideological, yes, but not racist.
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Postby elko » Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:16 pm

I never thought of Morrissey as conservative. So whether he is or isn't racist, it's a dissapointment to see these are his views nowadays. I guess any potential court case will out a little bit more of the truth.
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Postby weasey » Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:27 pm

The thing that disappoints me most about all of this is that my parents agree with him. My Daily Mail reading parents. My parents and Morrissey have always been in wonderful contrast to one another. Now what??

I'm also sad about his conservatism, thought I've always suspected as much with regards to his sense of national identity. However, as I mentioned above, I think his views are motivated by a Romantic, nostalgic feeling, rather than a fusty, boring political one. Well, I hope so anyway.
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Postby Cracked Pleasures » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:50 pm

Whatever motivation does not justify the words IMO. To consider immigrants a threat to a "national identity" is racism, at least in my books it is. I can only hope he did not say those exact words and that NME somewhat made it sound worse than it was.
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Postby elko » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:13 pm

Cracked Pleasures wrote:Whatever motivation does not justify the words IMO. To consider immigrants a threat to a "national identity" is racism, at least in my books it is. I can only hope he did not say those exact words and that NME somewhat made it sound worse than it was.

<a href="http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2007/11/jonze_nme_morrissey.html" target="_blank">http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2007/11/..._morrissey.html</a>

In which the author of the piece says all the Morrissey quotes are 100% correct.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's clear, though, is this: the "I've been stitched up" card is the last bastion of someone who's said something offensive but is too scared to back this up, yet too stubborn to apologise. How can Morrissey possibly claim a stitch up when the interview is printed in Q&A form, his quotes are recorded on tape and he wasn't even asked about immigration in the first place? It's truly cowardly. If Morrissey holds these opinions he should either be sticking to his guns and standing by them or - more honorably - educating himself on race issues, realising why his comments were both offensive and inflamatory, and apologising for them as quickly as is humanly possible.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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Postby Truman Capote » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:45 pm

Cracked Pleasures wrote:Whatever motivation does not justify the words IMO. To consider immigrants a threat to a "national identity" is racism, at least in my books it is. I can only hope he did not say those exact words and that NME somewhat made it sound worse than it was.

Well I think that immigration THREATENS and CHANGES (sometimes for good, sometimes for bad) the identity of any nation, I think it's just a truth that no one wants to accept because it would sound racist to this new pseudo-liberal world. I am proud of Morrissey for having the guts.
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Postby weasey » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:18 pm

Also from the Guardian comments site (which is pretty good incidently) is this blog entry, which is a bit more sensible and level headed I think. In other words, it's not written by any one from the NME or Merck Mercuriadis (Morrissey's manager. If you're bored, it might also be worth checking out the Mozzer sycophant site http://www.true-to-you.com, on which Merck has posted alot of accusatory messages about why the NME is shit and Morrissey isn't, including legal gubbins between moz's solicitors and the nme (if you're very bored)

<a href="http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2007/11/mozgate.html" target="_blank">http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2007/11/mozgate.html</a>

Apparently, although Morrissey's responses weren't changed, there was more to the interview than just immigration ranting, which they ommited, probably things which made him seem like a more balanced individual, I dunno NME: 'What do you like for breakfast?' Moz: 'Toast, occassionally I'll have marmalade on it'
Although I did read somewhere that the nme altered the questions tim asked to make it seem like he wasn't provoked in to talking about immigration, more as though he just likes to rant about it.
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Postby elko » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:02 pm

I have written in some depth about it (well, depth for me, at least) on my blog:

<a href="http://rescueaidsociety.blogspot.com/2007/12/q-is-morrissey-racist-or-is-nme-shit.html" target="_blank">morrissey nme palava</a>
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Postby helmoz » Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:51 pm

having looked a bit more properly at the interview now (i really only glanced over it last time), i don't think moz is really saying "send them all back," i think he is just being his usual nostalgic self, he's obviously shocked to see the world changing, but i don't think he explicitly says at any point in the interview that it should be stopped.
i disagree with his idea that immigration is necessarily bad for our cultural identity - there are so many other factors like chain shops replacing local shops, imported american culture (with the greatest of respect and without wanting to sound anti-american), the loss of a feeling of local community in some places due to factors like commuting, etc etc. - if our identity has been lost (and it is debatable whether it is or not), there can be lots of reasons why and i don't think it can be blamed on immigration, or at least not solely on it. this is a time of great change, and immigration from far-off foreign countries is merely one aspect of it. also i suspect that he could be wrong about germany - it seems to be a multicultural country just as much as britain.
i also disagree when he says that anybody can come here now - i hear people saying that a lot, but it's often very difficult to become a citizen of a country. i think he's just misled here. unfortunately the far right does tend to tell people that everyone has access to the country, and it is sad to see him using their kind of language. in a lot of ex-pat comunities the only british newspaper readily available is the daily "hate" mail and i wonder if that is where he gets those kind of phrases from. it is very disappointing to see someone like moz who normally comes across as intelligent and eloquent suddenly using tabloid-esque phrases.
however, i think his views are no worse than a lot of other people's - i don't agree with all his views on the subject but i hear far worse views on a regular basis. maybe he is racist, but it seems to me that he's just more ignorant or misinformed than anything else. i can't help wondering if the reason why moz's views are news is because he is a singer and singers aren't supposed to have opinions on anything (they're just supposed to go on prime-time ITV shows to smile and say how much they love their mums). the interview has even been discussed on "question time"! what people really need to worry about are the ones who are truly racist. richard littlejohn (just to take one example) is a truly nasty piece of work but you don't see this kind of fuss being made about him.
woah, i seem to have typed loads, sorry.
Last edited by helmoz on Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby chicken » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:39 pm

helmoz wrote:woah, i seem to have typed loads, sorry.

no apologies necessary, sweetness. the loads you typed were a nice read...and from what i know i agree with you virtually 100%.

however, i also agree with TC when he said:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well I think that immigration THREATENS and CHANGES (sometimes for good, sometimes for bad) the identity of any nation, I think it's just a truth that no one wants to accept because it would sound racist to this new pseudo-liberal world. I am proud of Morrissey for having the guts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i would only add that i would have expected mozzer to be far more eloquent and intelligent in his comments, given the lyrical genius he has proven himself to be.
any 'established' culture generally wants homogeneity--at least cultural, if not racial. now while we can stand back and label that as ignorant or xenophobic, the fact remains that's how things have pretty much always been in human history. afterall, introducing different elements into a society undermine the very definition of culture. don't mistake me, i'm not defending it, just offering my take on the issue. if i were to defend it, i would have to agree with the olden British tradition of shipping the irish to the australian penal colony just because they were irish--which is sheer folly, IMHO.


immigration is a huge issue in the US, as most of you know. any country foolish enough to believe building a physical wall will stop immigration is on a sorry, fearful, and conflicted road to bad karma. i mean, why not form a NAU (north american union) to solve the problem?
alas, though, as much as it disgusts me to admit, i understand why america has the views it does....just last week in a discussion with a 22-year old i heard the word "Ni**er" (i refuse to even type that word) used to refer to an Indian woman!! how pathetically ignorant and misguided is that?!?!


but as for Mozzer, i suppose i can understand his nostalgic self to a degree, but then again i'm not one of those guys who waxes on and on about "the good old days" because, in reality, they really weren't that good!! (there is plenty of experimental evidence to back my claim on this.) i think he should leave his nostalgic tendencies to his creative works, not his comments on modern society.


in my own little world, i'd like to hope mozzer made those statements off-the-cuff more than anything else. i know from personal experience how much richer a person i am for mingling with people from other cultures.

:unsure:
hopefully this made some sense.
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